Does a Championship Define a Players Greatness?

[joshposh]

So I've making a lot of "greatest of all time" threads in the basketball forums. One of the criteria's that have been thrown around is "playoff success/championship". That is a good argument. Some may lean more towards that when considering who is the best of all time.

I want to take a look at Lebron James situation. Everyone is pointing at him as being the best or certainly will be the best if he continues on his path. But what if he never left the Cleveland Cavaliers a few years back? I'm pretty darn sure he would of never won a championship or come close to repeating what he did in Miami. Now would this diminish this view as the future best player in the NBA? I think it would. Some people put that criteria high on their list.

I still think he is one of the best players out there right now, and he will be considered the best ever, with or without a championship.

 

[Choi]

First of all, LeBron wouldn't be the greatest player of all time. The GOAT title belongs to Michael Jordan alone and the way I see it, there's no player out there that has the ability and intangibles to surpass him just yet. I don't wanna sound rude and I just wanna make it clear that I respect Lebron. He's a once-in-a-generation talent and he's the kind of player who can single handedly turn a franchise around much like David Robinson and Tim Duncan.

I also don't think that a lot of people are saying that Lebron would become the greatest ever at his current career trajectory. He's not the dominant force like Jordan was. He also doesn't possess the killer instinct that MJ and Kobe has. And he's career would forever be downplayed by him changing teams when he was on his prime to team up with TWO future hall of fame players to try and win a ring. That's not what champions do. PERIOD.

However, I do agree that he's the best player of his generation. No doubt about that. But becoming the GOAT and surpassing MJ? I don't think so.

 

[joshposh]

Jordan is still my pick as the best player ever. But Lebron has the potential to do it. Not this season, not next. Maybe in the future. But that's a big maybe.

 

[thejamal]

Championships are the equalizer when you start talking about the top 20 players of all-time. It's what separates guys like Tim Duncan and Karl Malone. Malone has one of the greatest statistical peaks ever and was one of the best 2 way players ever, but the fact he never won a title will always hurt his legacy.

With regards to Bron and Jordan, Bron would be in the discussion if he manages to win another 3 or 4 titles. His statistical peak is very close to Jordan's and he's got the MVP resume to match up to Jordan. Especially if Bron continues to play at this level for another 4 or 5 years, it's going to be damn close discussion between the two for who is the GOAT. But if Bron retired tomorrow, there's no question the GOAT is still Jordan.

 

[Choi]

^
I always see Malone as the benefactor of Stockton's greatness. Without Stockton, I don't think that he would rack up the stats that he has today. But nevertheless, he's still one of the most dominant forces that the game has ever seen. However because of MJ, he was unable to win a championship. Think about it, a lot of the NBA greats such as Barkley, Ewing, Malone, Stockton, and Miller were unable to win a ring because of one man alone, and that man wears number 23. That's a major props to the greatness of Jordan.

 

[lindbergh]

Merely being in a championship team does not determine the greatness of a player. Leading a team to a championship is another story though. Like MJ for instance. He lead the Chicago Bulls to 6 NBA championships. It's always brought up whenever they talk about his greatness and compare him to other greats such as LeBron James and Kobe Bryant. Robert Horry has also won a lot of championships but it isn't talked about as much as they talk about MJs. The difference is leadership - being able to lead a team. A championship reflects the leadership of a great basketball player.

 

[seanohare]

Skill wise, I believe LeBron and Jordan are completely different players. From a championship standpoint, they both have been extremely vital to their teams success. Jordan has been way more important to his team than Lebron has been to his teams in comparison though. It seems with the NBA finals record piling up losses that his legacy is being tarnished. I wouldn't go that far, he will never be the greatest though.

 

[Waynefire]

The greatness of a player is a multitude in factors. I know that many people will use a definition of greatness as the championships they have won. However, I think it is more of the overall play they have on the court, but also the way they hold themselves off of the court. If people are looking at this they can start to see just how great a player really is.

 

[thepieeatingjay]

It's among the factors that can define greatness yes. But it's not the only factor. In fact, it may not be even the most important. Some of the greatest players the game has ever had don't have a ring. Dominque Wilkens, Patrick Ewing, and Clyde Drexler come to mind.

What defines a great player is how they've dealt with adversity throughout the course of their career. How much of themselves they left on the court is what comprises a player's greatness.

 

[westmixxin]

I really depends on the player to be real with you. Sometimes we have players that just can’t be denied but most of the time these great players are denied their glory.

 

[goldenmaine]

I think a championship adds to a player’s greatness but it doesn't necessarily define him as a great player. The main factor that defines a player’s greatness is his career statistics in terms of points, assists, rebounds, etc. Individual game will define greatness because it shows how well a player plays the game and how good he is compared to other players. There are players who win championships but are not that good and are just supporting players. Being a great player on court, with or without a championship, will make him great. But it is a great bonus to be a good player on court and be the one to lead a team to a championship; this is what a true great player is.

 

[xTinx]

Even if critics hail a player as the "greatest of all time," it does leave a sour taste in the mouth when there isn't a championship to his name. How can a player be so great if he hasn't even led his team to the ultimate victory? What does that make Allen Iverson? Karl Malone? Despite impressive records, those guys left the NBA empty-handed.

 

[AtlantaSports]

In all basketball circles, Lebron is always brought up and there is always a 50/50 divide of taste. I don't like Lebron, personally. He jumped ship and then comes back. That is not loyal whatsoever. He also tried to get all of the best players in the league to play with him, which is definitely not something that Bird, Jordan or Russell would do. I think he is definitely one of the best players of my time, but he is not going to go down in history as much as everyone likes to say that he is, and that is mostly because he is disliked by so many people due to the things he has done in his career.

 

[OGRICHBOI]

I don't believe so, but I believe in a different statement. Championships define how great a TEAM is and their chemistry. Basketball is not a one player game, which is different from what many people believe. Team work is needed to win championships, and individual skill wins 1 on 1's.

 

[joshposh]

In all basketball circles, Lebron is always brought up and there is always a 50/50 divide of taste. I don't like Lebron, personally. He jumped ship and then comes back. That is not loyal whatsoever. He also tried to get all of the best players in the league to play with him, which is definitely not something that Bird, Jordan or Russell would do. I think he is definitely one of the best players of my time, but he is not going to go down in history as much as everyone likes to say that he is, and that is mostly because he is disliked by so many people due to the things he has done in his career.

I have to agree with you on that one. Lebron is hurting himself by jumping ship and moving around a lot. But I do look at it from another standpoint as well. We are fans of the sport. But these guys are getting smarter about it and they look at it as a business. They need to do what is right for them, financially and comfort wise. Sure they could of gone down as the greatest ever, but will that put an extra million in your pocket? Nope. Business first, and let the media make up the labels.

 

[queenbellevue]

I have to agree with you on that one. Lebron is hurting himself by jumping ship and moving around a lot. But I do look at it from another standpoint as well. We are fans of the sport. But these guys are getting smarter about it and they look at it as a business. They need to do what is right for them, financially and comfort wise. Sure they could of gone down as the greatest ever, but will that put an extra million in your pocket? Nope. Business first, and let the media make up the labels.

Yeah, definitely. What people don't realize is that marketing and player branding affects how us fans see players A LOT. Honestly, I don't mind Lebron moving around, there are plenty of different reasons why he'd wanna do that. The way I see it, he's still a very valuable player, regardless of where he's at

 

[stevesxs9]

It shouldn't but in a lot of cases it does. Sometimes a great player stays on a mediocre team for too long and takes up the best years of their career. Then sometimes there maybe terrible coaching that keeps a player and his teammates from winning championships. Unfortunately in society today, championship rings make a great player greater and makes his career complete.

 

[Kappys]

The White mamba has more rings than a-lot of NBA greats, and practically never got any playing time whatsoever. He could have been put to good use but his talent was wasted while he was in the NBA, he never got a chance to truly shine. Respect to Brian Scalabrine.

 

[thejamal]

I don't believe so, but I believe in a different statement. Championships define how great a TEAM is and their chemistry. Basketball is not a one player game, which is different from what many people believe. Team work is needed to win championships, and individual skill wins 1 on 1's.

True, but we have to differentiate players one on one if we want to have discussions like "Who's better? Shaq or Hakeem?" And the reason why Jordan is the unanimous number was his dominance in the playoffs and the finals. His stats are other worldly too, but take away 3 or 4 titles form him and you'd probably have quite a few people who would give the top spot to someone like Kareem or Magic.

 

[AtlantaSports]

I have to agree with you on that one. Lebron is hurting himself by jumping ship and moving around a lot. But I do look at it from another standpoint as well. We are fans of the sport. But these guys are getting smarter about it and they look at it as a business. They need to do what is right for them, financially and comfort wise. Sure they could of gone down as the greatest ever, but will that put an extra million in your pocket? Nope. Business first, and let the media make up the labels.

Which begs the question: Do the players care more about the game or the money? No matter what answer a player gives, they are absolutely, one hundred percent guaranteed to piss someone off.